Hot Coffee with gallerist Berto Santana, founder of MAMA Projects, New York
MAMA Projects in New York stands out with its thoughtful approach oriented towards positioning artists who are not represented by other galleries. Berto Santana, who is originally from Brazil, has created a space for aesthetic dialogues and intellectual engagement. In this interview, we touched on workloads, gallery and artistic identities, and not overthinking when selecting artworks.
Nina: Imagine you are in your favorite coffee or tea spot. Where is it? What are you drinking? What are the three things you see right now?
Berto: That could be anywhere in Paris—sitting outside, sipping an espresso. It’s a sunny late-spring day, and I’m people-watching. I love observing more than talking.
Pathways at MAMA Projects. Installation view. Courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Pathways at MAMA Projects. Installation view, works by Nicki Cherry and Laura Berger. Image courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Nina: You opened your gallery, MAMA Projects, in its current Chelsea location one year ago. What lessons have you learned as a gallerist since then?
Berto: The main thing I’ve realized in this past year is not to rush things. It took me some time to understand that because I was eager to implement our program as quickly as possible. Since I started the project four years ago, our primary focus has been showcasing artists without gallery representation in the U.S., particularly those from abroad. This mission still guides us, but with our physical space, I’ve come to understand the need to strike a balance with New York-based artists as we build our community. Entering our second year in Chelsea, I’m fine-tuning our program to slow things down, allowing more time to think things through, extend our shows, and add some breathing room between exhibitions. Putting together a show takes far more energy than one might think—especially for a small gallery. The workload and psychological weight are much greater than I expected. That’s something our industry doesn’t openly discuss enough.
Another key lesson for me was not letting “perfect” get in the way. It’s important to set expectations and establish your standards, but small details that don’t significantly impact the bigger picture shouldn’t be the focus. Keeping an open mind and embracing imperfections can be liberating, and sometimes that leads to unexpected but positive outcomes.
Omissions at MAMA Projects. Installation view, works by Peter Hoffmeister and Elsa Werth. Image courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Omissions at MAMA Projects. Installation view, work by Elsa Werth. Image courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Nina: What is your philosophy on working specifically with artists who don’t have representation? Do you think this model gives artists more freedom in their creative process?
Berto: Being a foreigner in the U.S. gives you a different perspective, especially in New York. I’m originally from São Paulo, Brazil, and after more than 18 years in the U.S., I’m inherently drawn to other cultures and behaviors. The idea for this model, which isn’t new, came from a desire to learn and to provide opportunities for artists looking to exhibit in the city.
As for the second question, there are obvious advantages for an artist to have gallery representation, such as guidance, support, and a constant platform to promote their work, which can set the artist on a path to thrive in the mid/long term. At the same time, I recognize the value of the creative freedom that comes without gallery ties. Even though this option comes with more risks, given the uncertainty of where to show next and constant advocacy to their practice, I do think it allows artists to explore more and gives them a new measure of how to gauge their worthiness in new ways. Ultimately, this option requires more research on their part to filter through options and understand the potential consequences of each decision. However, the trade-off is having full autonomy over their choices.
Partial Objects at MAMA Projects. Installation view, works by Arthur Palhano and Kian McKeown. Image courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Nina: What factors influence your decision to work with a specific artist?
Berto: First and foremost, I need to genuinely like the work, without any external considerations. I try not to overthink the process—it's rare for me to reach out to an artist on a whim. I keep a list of potential artists for our program, looking for connections between them, whether through ideas for a show or hidden dialogues that might spark conversations. I prioritize being transparent and aligning expectations on both sides. Also, I have a “no-asshole” policy—I try my best to avoid drama.
Partial Objects at MAMA Projects. Installation view, work by Kian McKeown. Image courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Nina: Your recent shows — Pathways, Omissions, and Partial Objects — have an intellectually driven, curatorial dimension. Is this direction intentional?
Berto: I see our exhibitions as potential narratives where the work can be viewed in new contexts—hopefully, contexts the artists haven’t explored before. For instance, our current group show, “Pathways,” with Alessandra Acierno, Laura Berger, Nicki Cherry, Stephanie Lucchese, Masha Morgunova and Paula Querido, on view through December 19, is centered around a protagonist—“her”—navigating different aspects of life, touching on themes of body, mind, expectations, spirituality and commonality. Then, our last show, “Omissions,” with Peter Hoffmeister and Elsa Werth, planned to overlap with the U.S. presidential elections and explored a dialogue on how governments and media have the power to shape opinions. And lastly, as you mentioned, “Partial Objects” with Arthur Palhano and Kian McKeown, whose work plays with everyday visual cues and pop culture imagery, were the through-line to compare similar worlds with different perspectives through iconography.
While I work closely with artists, I don’t consider myself a curator. I see myself more as a connector, bringing together artists and writers to create stories that allow viewers to fill in the blanks. I’ve been fortunate to collaborate with individuals who share similar visions.
From solo exhibition CHRISTINA BARRERA PARA TODOS TODO, FREE IN THE OPEN AIR. Image courtesy of MAMA Projects.
Nina: What project are you most excited about for 2025?
Berto: I’m still working on our 2025 exhibition schedule. I’ve applied to two fairs—one in Europe and one in the U.S., and in parallel, I’m brainstorming alternative ways to showcase our artists. Each presentation brings its kind of excitement, and I hope to keep it going.